The New Black Eagle Jazz Band: Pt. 3

JB: I’m concluding an interview/listening session with New Black Eagle Jazz Band members Stan Vincent (trombone), “Pam” Pameijer (drums) and Billy Novick (reeds) about the band they were in together in Boston for almost 40 years, the New Black Eagle Jazz Band (NBEJB). The NBEJB accomplished performing complicated pieces like “East St. Louis Toodle-oo” and “Weatherbird Rag” (and literally hundreds of others) without music, written arrangements, or even crib notes on the stage. Before we continue exploring additional specific tunes, I’ve a question for you gents. Were you all blessed with photographic memories or were there some other kinds of methods at work here?

Cornelis H. “Pam” Pameijer: From an early age I was hooked onto classic jazz of the 1920s and I listened for endless hours to Morton, Oliver, Armstrong, Fletcher Henderson, Bechet, etc. I think that lead to a natural feel for the music. I call it a natural saturation by complete immersion. As a result the songs and arrangements came easily as I had heard the originals many times. I may have stumbled on a break or a particular arrangement of a more complicated tune the first time, but usually by the second time I was okay. I subbed for a band in Washington and they had a very different repertoire. Having developed a quick ear I had little difficulty following their arrangements. I do not read music and therefore depend entirely on listening and watching the trumpet/cornet for clues. I fully grasped Tony’s body language when he played.

Billy Novick: There were definitely some written out arrangements which often became fluid..but not many. We have this very extensive chord book which pianist Bob Pilsbury always referred to. But, other than that, I have no idea and, oddly enough, never really thought about it. In fact, I’d say the vast majority of groups that I’ve played with, in ALL genres, didn’t have any written arrangements. Maybe it’s something you just pick up through experience and necessity. if you join a group that doesn’t have written arrangements—like I did with the Black Eagles—you have to memorize the parts…but I’d done that with 15-20 groups I’d played with before I joined the band. However, I also scribbled out some “cheat sheets” for some of the band’s more complicated tunes, though I rarely used them and typically had them memorized after the second or third time of playing them. I feel there’s possibly something missing if you’re constantly reading this type of music and not using your ear.

Stan Vincent: I like what Bill has to say about the chord book. Personally, I learned by ear via rehearsals and I counted on weekly rehearsals to keep tunes fresh in my mind.

JB: Ah yes, I remembered about your long-term residency at the Stickey Wicket Pub, but forgot you had weekly rehearsals as well. Those both obviously contributed to the scope and amount of musical selections you featured in your sessions and concerts!

…AND recordings! We’ll start with a rendition of a rare blues called “Mean Blues.” From the release Jersey Lightning, it’s one you’d forgotten the band had recorded, Billy! What do you think of it 35 years later?

BN: I’ve always liked the tune and I really like this version. The chord progression is really interesting yet not so sophisticated that it loses the bluesy feeling.

CHP: I consider this a great example of how well the Black Eagles captured the soul of the blues. To this day, I believe the band was better at slow blues tunes than at fast ones, with many notable exceptions. This would change when the rhythm section switched from tuba to string bass, a development I have always described in my mind as a rhythm section that was more at peace. Getting back to the tune, the first ensemble is wonderful, followed by a great trombone solo. The muted cornet solo is a highlight of the tune, showcasing Tony at his best. Billy’s clarinet and Peter’s banjo duet features Billy being comfortable with traditional clarinet styles. The ending is particularly nice. Controlled and powerful.

BN: I totally agree, Pam. One of the things I immediately loved about the band was that everyone was so supportive of playing with subtlety and being able to solo in such a nuanced way. The band (tubist Eli Newberger became the exception) was never into artificial playing- no flashiness or hitting people over the head with volume, showboating, or high and intense notes, etc. I think I played the way I did on this tune because I was inspired and “informed” by the soulful delicacy of Tony’s solo that preceded mine.

JB: The two sections of this blues are haunting. The 24-bar A-section (or verse) has such soulful changes, as does the 12-bar blues chorus. So many of the elements that set the NBEJB apart are here. Stan’s powerful solo, Bob Pilsbury’s accapella out-of-tempo exploration of section A leading to a stomping ride through section B; Tony’s sobbing solo with the subtlest rhythm accompaniment one could ask for; Billy’s clarinet solo with only Peter Bullis backing on banjo…

[N.B. these two choruses still make me weep…what IS it? Billy’s playing the melody straight for the first chorus while changing each phrase just a little bit to tell the story? Peter keeping solid time allowing Billy to shake up his phrases on the second chorus? The unique high tuning on the banjo making for such a mournful sound? Whatever it was, is, and continues to be for me, the first time I heard these two choruses, it was them that made me stop listening to the rest of the CD until I played this tune over a dozen times. Poetry, sweet and simple.]

Although Eli comes in like a howitzer, he calms down and plays a lovely tuba solo on the verse with piano accompaniment, leading to a single-string banjo blues solo that is so melancholic it gives me chills. The final two ensembles of the blues chorus lead to an eight-bar tag during which Pam executes one of those seemingly endless choke cymbal variations, this time on the china cymbal. I’m taking a break to listen to it again right now.

Okay, I’m back! We come to the eponymous tune of the recording from which we’re currently choosing tunes.“Jersey Lightning,” originally recorded by the 10-piece orchestra run by pianist/composer Luis Russell in 1929 is a monstrously difficult piece to play well for a full-size territory band, let alone a septet of talented blokes of only which one was a full-time musician!! Since I have a feeling that full-timer was the catalyst behind the inclusion of this piece, I’m turning it over to you, Billy! You guys knocked this out of the park in a live performance!!

BN: Okay. True confessions. When I first joined the band (and even well into my tenure with the band) I absolutely loved the free, New Orleans style ensemble playing and bluesy feel the band had…but, as an arranger, I was somewhat shocked by the more structured or arranged tunes the band did. The voicing (what horn plays the melody and how the other horn parts are organized around that melody) on some of the tunes was so haphazard that it was sometimes hard to figure out who was playing the melody (“The Mooche” was one example).

At some rehearsals there would be differing opinions about what is the “correct” chord to be used in certain spots. Given a choice, Tony would always choose the simpler chord, which was a perfectly good option for the New Orleans tunes. But on the more sophisticated tunes I’d often feel that using the simpler chord did such a disservice to the tune that we shouldn’t even be playing it (Cole Porter’s “It’s Alright With Me” is one that sticks in my mind).

One of my goals was to try and fix some of the voicing and develop a clearer sense of what the chords should be. All that met with varying degrees of success. It’s really hard to change a part you’ve been playing for years, and, unfortunately, if you take an arranged tune and change one horn part you’ll likely have to change the other two frontline parts too—as well as possibly the chords being played.

I felt there were similar issues with playing tightly-written horn section rhythms, too. Tony wasn’t a big band player. One of the reasons his playing was SO expressive was because he took so many liberties in the phrasing and feeling of a tune’s melody. But what works wonderfully in a loose, New Orleans style setting can be really problematic when you’re trying to simulate a larger band with tight horn section playing. It can be frustrating to have a rhythmic passage be played so inexactly, and in so many different ways!

How do these thoughts relate to “Jersey Lightning?” I wrote the arrangement for the band, and one of my most strongest memories is that we rarely played all of those “tricky rhythms” correctly. The tune often felt frantic to me (I was certainly a contributor to that.) So imagine my surprise when I listened to this tune- what? Over thirty years later? It sounds great! The section work is tight with both the frontline and the rhythm section—much tighter than I ever remembered it being! It still feels a bit frenetic in spots, but that’s a big part of what makes it so exciting!

CHP: A tune from the Henry Allen/Louis Russell years. Our interpretation is equally up-tempo and hard-driving. The intro is great, and the tricky horn break is flawless. Billy’s alto solo gets the rhythm section going, followed by a nice cornet solo. After an ensemble Stan continues the build up with a roaring trombone solo. In typical Black Eagle fashion, the out choruses are from soft restraint to full-blown, ending with a few bars of gradual slowing down to the conclusion. In my opinion a rousing performance as evidenced by the reaction of the audience. Billy’s description is more erudite than mine as he is the professional musician and I am the guy who strictly plays by ear, yet we seem to have reached the same conclusion. Interesting!

JB: We next move to four tunes from your CD Hear Me Talkin’ To Ya from 1990. Pam, you chose our first tune, “Louisiana-i-a.” Tell us about the experience of playing for the crowd where this recording was made and your thoughts about this selection!

CHP: The band was definitely on fire in familiar territory at the Mount Gretna Play House, a venue where the Black Eagles performed annually for over 37 years. The weekend wrapped up with a church service on Sunday morning, followed by a frantic rush to the airport to catch a flight back to Boston.

The tune has a good balance of front line and rhythm section. It was a favorite of the band and the fans. After a strong start, Tony’s gravelly vocals ended with his trademark “da-ba-de-do” followed by a hard-driving trombone solo. After a banjo solo, Billy on alto gives a rousing solo backed up by a rocking rhythm section. During the entire tune, the rhythm section alternates between a half beat (or 2/4) and 4/4 beat, building up to a climactic ending.

SV: Tony stomps off a very nice tempo for this tune, the ensemble work is solid throughout. The two shared choruses of clarinet and banjo are excellent, and the three out choruses build to a great climax!

JB: Billy, I love how your solo begins in such a relaxed fashion as you take your time to build up to a torrid torrent of heat in your second chorus! Next from this great album is the title tune, “Hear Me Talkin’ To Ya”!

BN: I’ve always felt that “Hear Me Talkin’ To Ya” is one of the best things the band recorded during this period!

SV: Yes! I think the ensemble work being done here is excellent!

CHP: The tune showcases the same enthusiasm as the other three and was well received by an audience of yearly regulars coming from as far away as Washington.

JB: And now to a surprise tune for your band, “Love Nest”: not one we’d expect given your repertoire of rarities.

BN: From the start, a perfect tempo (“graceful”) gives such a sense of musical space to everything. Three choruses in? What other band would ever do that? Right when the third chorus started I was wondering if it was too long, then Pam went to the ride cymbal and it was perfect. Nice solos- the melody again in the middle of the tune? Wow- so unusual…

The crazy thing is that I don’t really like the tune as a jazz piece. It always felt a bit stilted, the melody too formal and the chords a bit too busy, almost getting in the way of the flow of things…but not at all here. To me, one of the most powerful things a musician can do is take a tune or a lyric that is sappy or seemingly devoid of any depth and put emotion into it and make it come alive. It’s the kind of thing Billie Holiday did all of the time…and, to a small extent, I feel like we did that here.

CHP: It was unusual for the Black Eagles to play a tune from the Bix Beiderbecke repertoire, as the band’s main focus was on music from black bands of the twenties and, preferably, unknown tunes rather than popular standards. The band was, however, capable of giving it a New Orleans sound. The ensembles are nice, and so are the clarinet and trombone solos. Here again, the rhythm section alternates between a half-time beat and 4/4, giving the tune a rocking feeling.

SV: Tony’s vocal a la Pops is a very nice touch!

JB: I’ll mention that Billy’s playing the verse straight before his jazz solo was also a very nice touch!

Our final tune from this recording is the amazing piece “Deep Henderson.” Pam, your thoughts?

CHP: This is an unusual tune for the Black Eagles. It is more of a big band tune. King Oliver recorded “Deep Henderson” on April 21, 1926, with an eleven piece band. Billy’s clarinet has some resemblance to the Oliver recording in the beginning, but he very quickly throws in his own interpretation. At a half beat initial rhythm the change to 4/4 gets the band in swing mode. The piano solo is pure swing followed by a—to my ear—modern tuba stop chorus. Then Billy’s first chorus on alto sax is constrained with front line back up following which he unleashes his shackles and goes all out. Definitely big band stuff and a modern twist for the band. The ending is raucous.

SV: This is a very nice arrangement. I especially like Billy’s solo with brass back up, the excellent ensemble work with breaks, and a nifty double ending.

JB: In addition to large stages with capacity crowds, the NBEJB sometimes went into the studio to record, and we find a gem of tune from one of these sessions on your 25th Anniversary Vol. 2 release. This is one of the oldest tunes from your repertoire, a waltz from 1915 by Gus Kahn and Egbert Van Alstyne called “Memories.”

CHP: This is a nice example of small bands within the larger band. After a pretty first ensemble followed by the piano, a duet of tuba and piano takes place. Following the next ensemble, a trio of piano, clarinet, and banjo leads to three out choruses. There is a gradual build-up in intensity and volume, culminating in a powerful ending.

SV: This was a well recorded effort featuring the clarinet and rhythm section and the tune really chugged along!

BN: I’ve always loved the tune—my mother would sing the first line to me when she was reminiscing about something. I feel like we did it justice on this recording, and I can’t think of any time we played it where it didn’t feel right.

The waltzes of that era and the 1920s had such beautiful melodies and rich chord structures. New Orleans bands loved taking them and changing them to 4/4 time in a medium bounce. Some of my favorite vehicles for this practice include “The Whiffenpoof Song,” “Always,” “ I’m Alone Because I Love You,” and especially “If You Were the Only Girl in the World!”

Jumping to a later era for the band, 1998 produced yet another album from one of your many Mt. Gretna Playhouse concerts in Mt. Gretna, PA called Old Fashioned Swing. This is the title tune.

SV: Listening back to this, I heard a good tempo picked by Tony, who also supplies a very nice vocal. Billy on alto pulls off a first-rate solo, Bob on piano hammers it, and the three out choruses with breaks are spot on, with an excellent rhythm section and a tight ending.

CHP: The recording is somewhat heavy on the bass drum, but having said that it provided a solid steady rhythm. The vocal is nice and Stan’s solo is powerful. As I mentioned before, Billy knows how to push the rhythm section and this is yet another example. I cannot speak for reed players, but in my experience an alto or tenor sax is a better instrument than a clarinet to fire up a rhythm section.

BN: There is generally more sheer power (and volume) with the sax, but the clarinet can certainly drive a band. It’s just a lighter way of doing it. Because of the range of the instruments, the saxes tend to anchor themselves within the the rhythm section a bit more than the clarinet, which is more “above” the rhythm section.

JB: Nice observation, Billy! For years, the band was a tuba/banjo outfit, but not in the strictly-two-beat Lu Watters or San Francisco vein. Rather, as you’ve all mentioned, the NBEJB concentrated on the classic New Orleans repertoire as well as unearthing forgotten jazz and pop gems, all wrapped in a flow between 2/4 and 4/4 feels. However, once tubist Eli Newberger was no longer part of the band, Tony Pringle led you all to adopt the more traditional string bass for your chosen, nuanced sound: a move some of you had been looking forward to for a while. While some fans, myself included, opined that the individual sound of the band was radically changed by Eli’s departure, the band achieved a lighter swing and went on to new heights.

CHP: As a drummer, my life became easier when we switched to bass. The bass players we had were solid and it was easier for me to keep the rhythm section under control. This may sound strange but many gigs with tuba were physically tiring. I believe that with a string bass it also gave me an opportunity to further develop my drumming skills, strike out a bit. I was less preoccupied with keeping the beat going and felt more confident. This reminds me of a band meeting during the very early years of the band when we talked about the music and tried to analyze it. Stan asked the loaded question: “Who is the most important person in the band?” After much debate it was decided that it was the drummer. I suffered for many years under the weight of my responsibility (just kidding).

JB: While sometime in the future we’ll come back to look in depth at the NBEJB’s “post-tuba” offerings, I thought it’d be nice to supply a lagniappe for our readers and finish with one tune that happened during the Newberger years when Eli couldn’t make the gig. In 1991, bassist Don Kenney appeared with you at a concert in Newton, Massachusetts. „In the Sweet Bye and Bye” was captured and included in your 25th Anniversary Vol. 2 release. It shows a different side of the band and also introduces us to your frequent inclusion of gospel tunes during your concerts.

SV: Jeff, you picked a great example here of how the NBEJB was able to make such a smooth transition to string bass. During its earliest years it often turned to substitutes when Eli was unavailable. Don Kenney, a longtime friend of Bob Pilsbury and a local pro, often fit that bill.

CHP: Yes, this is one of the many gospel songs the Black Eagles performed frequently, and yes, this one was recorded with a bass (Don Kenney). This is an example of what I referred to earlier as a rhythm section at peace. It supports and drives the front line without overpowering. There is a change throughout the tune in rhythm between a half beat (2/4) and 4/4. A nice example of what was sometimes referred to as “Black Eagle Rhythm.”

BN: An “at peace” rhythm section—that’s a perfect description, Pam. For me, the band just sounded so much lighter, looser, more swinging and with so much space in the music without the tuba, and this is an early example of what we’d sound like from late 2001 on.

JB: Stan, Pam, and Billy, thank you for joining me on this exploration of the band’s sound from 1986 when you joined, Billy, to 2001 when the band adopted a string bass in the rhythm section. Dear readers, we’ve not heard the last of the New Black Eagle Jazz Band in this column, but for now, you’re encouraged to go to the band’s website (www.blackeagles.com) to learn even more about the band, which is still playing clubs and concerts with Billy Novick leading the group,

SV: Jeff: When I suggested to you that you might consider for your ongoing reviews in TST the resurgence of traditional jazz in the 1970s, I saw it as part of a never-ending worldwide popularity. I was pleasantly surprised when you decided to take me up on my idea and I was very happy to hear that you’d like to begin with the NBEJB. Thanks again for all the time and effort you’ve put into this three-part series. It’s been great fun and I’ve learned a lot. I look forward to your plans for future reviews with other bands.

CHP: Jeff, it has been a pleasure. Thank you for doing a great job getting comments out of us that were either forgotten or never expressed. I am looking forward to more. I thoroughly enjoyed getting back onto the music, albeit digitally.

BN: It’s been really informative and energizing for me to hear everyone’s musical “story” and thoughts about the band’s music. Jeff- great job “hosting” and moderating the discussion. Thanks so much for doing this- it’s been wonderful to reconnect with the band’s music from more than 30 years ago!

JB: The pleasure was all mine! Next month, I’ll reconnect with my long-time collaborator and friend, Hal Smith, and return to the music of trombonist “Kid” Ory. Stay well!

NBEJB leader Billy Novick is internationally recognized as a musician, performer, arranger, and composer. Visit him online at www.billynovick.com.

Trombonist Stan Vincent is the sole remaining “original” member of the New Black Eagle Jazz Band. Visit the New Black Eagles online at www.blackeagles.com for more information or to purchase their CDs.

Cornelis H. “Pam” Pameijer is a traditional jazz drummer, born in Indonesia. Pameijer moved to the United States in 1969 where he became a researcher in the field of reconstructive dentistry.

Write Jeff Barnhart at mysticrag@aol.com and visit his website www.jeffbarnhart.com.