The New Black Eagle Jazz Band, Part Two

Jeff Barnhart: Welcome back devoted readers! This month, we continue our journey through the music and times of the celebrated Boston-based septet The New Black Eagle Jazz Band (NBEJB). Last month I invited trombonist Stan Vincent to join me for part I and he’s with me again. Welcome back, Stan!

Stan Vincent: Thanks! Great to continue this series with you!

JB: As well, drummer Cornelis H. “Pam” Pameijer has hopped on the history train. Stan V has averred, “the NBEJB was blessed from the start to have Pam as its drummer. His understanding of traditional jazz and his ability to capture in his playing its unique and joyful spirit held us all together.” Welcome, Pam!

Cornelis H. “Pam” Pameijer: Great to be with you! Thanks for including me in this project.

JB: Stan and Pam, you were two of the original members of the NBEJB, founding it in 1971 along with cornetist Tony Pringle, reedman Stan McDonald, pianist Bob Pilsbury, banjoist Peter Bullis, and tubist Eli Newberger. For the next 10 years, the band redefined how to play stomps, rags, blues, marches, and songs from the 1920s-1930s and beyond, sprinkled with a few originals. In the first half of 1981, the group parted ways with Stan McD, continuing to perform and record with a number of terrific reedmen, among them Butch Thompson (also occasionally guesting on piano), Brian Williams, and especially the brilliant but ill-fated Brian Ogilvie, who you described, Pam, as “not only a terrific clarinetist but also a wonderful person with an unfortunate ending.”

However, one musician increasingly played with you, recording between the years 1982-1986 with the band more than any other reedman: Hugh Blackwell. Stan, after you mentioned that Stan McD and you served in the Army at different times and at different locations but both with the 50th Army Band, you shared a great story with me about Hugh, could you repeat it here?

SV: Believe it or not, Hugh Blackwell’s dad was the Sgt. in the band barracks when the 50th Army Band was at Fort Monroe in Virginia. We called him “Sargent Blackie.” At that time, Blackie and his family lived just outside the post. Later in the ’80s, Hugh and I made this startling discovery one night while chatting about our musical backgrounds.

Hugh came to Boston in the ’70s employed by Honeywell. He met & played with other local musicians such as Jimmie Mazzy & Scotty Philbrick with the Heritage Jazz Band, and occasionally filled in for Noel Kaletsky. One night Hugh dropped in to hear our band at the Sticky Wicket Pub and very shortly after joined the ranks of several other reed players filling that slot. Eventually he became more than a sub; he was a full member of the band from 1982 on.

JB: Hugh contributed so much to the band’s overall sound during the early-mid 1980s. My two questions for you both, and feel free to forget I’m here for a bit during your discussion, are: 1) Why do you feel it took so long to commit to a new full-time reed player? 2) What were some of the ways-musically and otherwise—playing with Hugh Blackwell differed from your time with Stan McD?

SV: To answer your first question…Because of his day gig as an electrical engineer, Hugh was not always available to play, hence the need for subs. This same reason took him and his family away from us in 1986. Regarding your question about the differences between the McDonald and Blackwell era: Musically, Hugh was a bandsman. He cared more about the band as a whole than for his own ego. Simple as that. Personally, while I had a good professional relationship with Stan McD, Hugh and I became close friends on and off the stage.

JB: I’ll add that you mentioned Johnny Dodds was a big influence on Hugh’s playing, while Stan McD was largely a Bechet devotee. Pam, could you share your observations?

CHP: When Stan McD left the band, we looked long and hard for a replacement. It was slim pickings. New Orleans reed players are a rare breed, so the choice was very limited. We tried several, with some success, until one night, Hugh, seemingly out of nowhere, showed up. Hugh was an admirer of Stan McD, and I always felt that he tried to imitate him. Hugh fit in well, and it didn’t take long for the band to realize that he was the one.

As you mentioned, during the interim period we had Brian Ogilvie on reeds, who commuted from Toronto to Boston for every gig. How he passed immigration each time, saying he was just visiting a friend, was a miracle. Brian always stayed with us when he visited, and that’s how I got to know him well. We just could not convince him to move to Boston, as we realized that this would require him to immigrate. We also had Brian Williams, a George Lewis-style clarinetist and Liverpool buddy of Tony. Brian had a vibrant, full-throated sound, and I enjoy the few recordings we have with him tremendously. Sadly, Brian also passed away at too young an age.

JB: Yes, bright lights sometimes burn too quickly.

[A full playlist of the tunes mentioned below has been created on YouTube, find it HERE.]

It’s time to explore some of the sounds the NBEJB was creating during those fruitful years. We start with sides from a session you performed during one of your (many) annual weekends at the Mt. Gretna Playhouse, in PA. This live recording shows just how much this audience loved the band! It also happens to be Stan’s favorite recording including Hugh.

The first tune we’ll discuss is the Ory classic, “All the Whores (Go Crazy).” The tempo is perfect, the feeling hot yet relaxed. It’s also a great introduction to the NBEJB for the uninitiated among our readers. As gifted and passionate as you all were as soloists, its the ensembles that stick in the mind long after the tune is over. On this side, we receive a full ninety seconds of ensemble playing that builds from chorus to chorus (there are five in all, and this to start the tune!) leading to the famous ensemble riff opening into the first solo. The honors go to Hugh Blackwell, and he’s KILLING it here!

The rhythm section is as well, everyone varying their feel and texture to accompany each chorus. The next solo finds you in fine form, Stan, and leads into another ensemble before we’re introduced to Tony Pringle’s unique and utterly charming vocal, somehow both lyrical and guttural, rather like his playing. A rare solo turn by banjoist Peter Bullis draws us into a final five ensembles to close. Gents, the final chorus leaves me breathless!

CHP: This was one of Tony’s favorites. His vocal is great. The tempo is excellent, and the rhythm section is hard-driving, light, and fluid. Hugh’s solo is lyrical and fits stylistically just right. His tone, as always, is wonderful. I love Stan’s solo, bawdy and powerful, in total control. The rhythm section displayed many changes in tone color. Tony and I had an unrehearsed, mutually agreed-upon concept for when to change tone color: soft, medium, or all-out. Strangely enough, we never talked about it; it just came naturally. Peter added a nice banjo solo to the tune.

SV: Not much to add. You guys have said it all. One of the very best recordings of the band during this period.

JB: Next is a moving rendition of “Amazing Grace” featuring Hugh and the rhythm section. Stan, let’s begin with you and continue with Pam.

SV: Bob and Hugh capture the essence of this classic hymn. Very sweet.

CHP: One of Hugh’s best performances. His playing is emotional and gracious. It is quintessentially Hugh, showcasing a rich, warm sound. The rhythm section is unobtrusive and supportive, allowing the focus to remain solely on Hugh. I always felt that Hugh was completely absorbed by the tune and his playing, living in another world altogether. For some reason, his ending always reminds me of Dvořák‘s cello concerto. Both Hugh and Dvořák were so immersed in the tune or concerto that they were reluctant to end it. Hugh finally ended it I feel in a way saying, “okay, I don’t want to but I have to end it.” This is what you get from a lover of classical New Orleans jazz and classical music.

JB: Interesting observation, Pam. As a listener, I often felt that way about the entire band: the tune was going so well that you all wanted to wring everything you could out of it, often resulting in chorus after chorus of ensemble playing growing and growing in intensity!

I have to call attention to the simple, supportive, and moving accompaniment Bob Pilsbury supplies at the piano behind Hugh on “Amazing Grace.” Really soulful.

Our next tune is “Shimme-she-wabble.” Stan, start us off!

SV: Nice up-tempo, tight ensemble throughout, excellent out choruses with soprano sax, cornet and trombone, and exceptionally well recorded.

JB: Agreed! Pam?

CHP: This is an energetic, hot tune with a nice balance of instruments. The rhythm section is controlled and steady, featuring many changes in tone color with loud and soft passages. Stan’s trombone is nice, and Hugh offers a very nice clarinet solo. I liked my drumming, which is a bit of a biased statement coming from me.

JB: LOL…we’re here for candid observations, Pam. And I agree with YOU as well! We’ll listen to one more side from this album: the very rarely performed “Funny Fumble,” a tune from 1930 originally recorded by drummer Harry Dial and His Blusicians. Guys, at a much faster clip than the original, this one is WILD without ever getting out-of-control!

SV: Yes, fast, but under control from start to finish. The front line was solid, the solos excellent—nice, clean breaks and the ensemble tight throughout. Gotta be one of my favorites!

CHP: This was a number the Black Eagles frequently played. It is hard-driving, and the tempo is great. It features many impressive breaks. Tony has a strong lead, and Stan’s solo is raw and brassy, the way New Orleans trombonists played. Hugh gives a fantastic solo in typical Hugh fashion from the beginning to the end. Stylistically reminiscent of the great New Orleans reed players. This tune was always a crowd pleaser.

JB: I can’t see how it wouldn’t be!!! Before we move on to our next tune, Stan, you wished to make a comment regarding the venue where this magical music was captured.

SV: Thanks, Jeff. The band’s forty-year association with this wonderful summer festival at Mt. Gretna Playhouse near Hershey, PA came from the support of its chairman Carl Ellenberger, a classmate of Eli Newberger at Yale Medical School. At our concert in 2018 Carl summarized our longtime ties writing, “In 1977 . . .I contacted the New Black Eagle Jazz Band . . . A tradition began . . . . We added the jazz Worship Service in 1992.” We, sometimes with our families, looked forward to these relaxing and always welcoming weekends.

JB: I think bands that last so long together find favorite venues and (from the sound of the response on the album) audiences during their journeys. Long may that be so!

Gents, I’m including a couple of sides from an album I simply adore that for some (legitimate) reasons is not one of your favorites, but I can’t resist mentioning two sides from 1982’s Stomp Off release Tight Like This (SOS 1054) that is now Vol.1 of a double-CD rerelease called Times Past. “Climax Rag” fairly thunders across the enthusiastic audience lucky enough to hear it live at the Phillips Ontspannings Centrum at Eindhoven in the Netherlands that evening. A piano rag composed by James Scott in 1914, and notably covered by Ralph Sutton in 1949 for Down Home Records, it would become a favorite of New Orleans clarinetist George Lewis and countless future trad jazz bands.

Yours stands out to me for the terrific ensemble work and the tight rhythm backing the horns on the intricate form. Once the band reaches the trio section, we’re treated to three choruses to make over two-and-a-half minutes of sizzling ensemble. Then onto solos for clarinet and piano into another two ensemble choruses that lead us to your trombone solo, Stan, which takes us to a final five ensemble choruses!! NBEJB really knew how to highlight the hallmark of New Orleans Jazz: polyphonic ensemble choruses of collective improvisation layering to grow in intensity to a climactic finish. Your version lives up to the title of the tune, and this was only the beginning of the concert!

Pam and Stan, would you care to share some thoughts about this side?

CHP: The tune has a good balance between front line and rhythm section. The ensembles are dynamic. The Black Eagles were known for playing endless ensembles and it was never boring and always varied in volume and texture. The rhythm rocks. Bob has a nice piano solo, while Stan’s trombone solo is forceful. A comment about Stan. I always felt that Stan was an underrated trombonist. He was a true bands man. I feel his concept was the same in the front line as mine in the rhythm section: Support the band as a whole, do not overpower. Yet, in his solos, he really knew how to belch them out. Hugh’s playing is typical Hugh, melodious and supplementing the front line without overpowering. I wished Tony could be heard better but that’s a recording issue.

SV: Pam, thank you for those kind words. This is an excellent choice, Jeff. From my view, the band is at its best—initial tight ensemble work includes a terrific clarinet break. Bob’s solo is exquisite, and we do manage to reel off five super outchoruses. I also have to give credit to the recording balance: First rate all around!

JB: A second side from this release that always gassed me was “Papa De Da Da.” This version takes the torrid tempo that composer Clarence Williams recorded in 1925 with his Blue Five and slows it down a couple more clicks, making for an almost sinister rendition. All the NBEJB hallmarks are here: Hot ensemble, sub-units within the band (nice cornet solo backed by only piano), rhythmic stops (beats one and two for Eli Newberger’s tuba solo) and an iconoclastic (and instantly iconic) surprise ending!

SV: Muted cornet and trombone work well here; Hugh reels off another very nice solo, and we manage to pull off the breaks in the final chorus.

CHP: The rhythm section is hard to hear, a bit under recorded. Tony’s intro on cornet is great and his solo on muted cornet is very nice. Muted cornet was definitely his forte. Stan has a nice solo and, unless I am mistaken, no solo by Hugh. The overall sound is great in spite of the imbalance between front line and rhythm. I rarely comment on Eli’s playing, but in this recording he plays a pretty solo, while in later years his antics on tuba were more directed to please and entertain the audience than being musically and stylistically appropriate. While I am at it, Bob was a terrific piano player, however, personally I never cared for his out of rhythm interludes on mostly slow tunes. This is one example.

JB: Pam, please allow me to amicably disagree with your comment regarding Bob Pilsbury. As a pianist, I’ve always found his Picasso-like solos on slow tunes to be thrilling. He’d go out on a limb and most often safely bring the band back in! I think these excursions contributed a great deal to the individuality of the band, but that’s just one opinion!

Globally, the band played all sizes and styles of venues from concert halls to arenas, but your residency at the Sticky Wicket Pub in Hopkinton, MA was always a favorite, likewise the small jazz clubs you’d often be invited to play. The results of one such session for the Potomac River Jazz Club was recorded at the Ramada Inn in Alexandria, VA in 1983. Eleven selections were released, and we’re exploring three of them. Lil Hardin’s and Louis Armstrong’s collaborative composition “Tears” has always been a favorite of mine. Pam, what can you tell us about this side?

CHP: This is a lovely Armstrong tune that I enjoy listening to each time I hear Louis playing it. The front line and rhythm section are well-balanced. It is a typical tune in which I played wood blocks. I have always admired Baby Dodds’ drumming, but I play the wood blocks differently. Dodds’ wood block playing frequently dominated the rhythm section, whereas I tried to support the rhythm to drive the front line. Tony, like Armstrong, features a strong lead. Stan’s breaks are great and so are Hugh’s. Hugh didn’t often play saxophone, but this is a nice example illustrating my wood block support. Bob is also featured on the breaks, and they are a bit unusual. Our rendition has a particularly hot ending.

JB: That evening, the band featured two lesser-played tunes by Jelly Roll Morton: “Froggie Moore (Rag)” and “Blue Blood Blues.” Stan, can you share your thoughts about these?

SV: You never know when playing a weekend gig in a motel ballroom—this one just outside D.C.—what you’re going to get for a recording, but this one turned out to be exceptionally good. I think Bob’s solos on both of these cuts are terrific—great examples of Bob being Bob. As well, both cuts feature excellent solos and great endings! Furthermore, “Froggie Moore” is a perfect example of what the band could do with Hugh in the front line. The intro and two choruses with clarinet, muted cornet and trombone is very nice; the well-recorded piano solo was exceptionally good, and the ending has got to be one of the best we ever pulled off.

CHP: “Froggie Moore” was a favorite of the Black Eagles, played in the original arrangement. The introduction is solid and is followed by Tony’s strong cornet lead. Tony has the first solo, and it is a nice one. Both Stan and Hugh lend great support to the front line. They enrich the ensembles without overpowering, giving space to each other. This has always been one of the strong features of the Black Eagles. Moreover, Tony’s playing leaves plenty of blank space for the trombone and clarinet to fill in, creating a sound that is not overcrowded by too many notes. Hugh’s clarinet solo is pretty.

For me, “Blue Blood Blues” is played at just the right tempo. The ensembles are harmonious, supported by a solid rhythm. Tony was always at his best when rendering muted solos, and this tune is a stellar example. Stan’s solo follows and is quite pretty. Hugh gives a smoky, low-register clarinet solo in the style of Jelly Roll’s clarinetists. The PRJC was never known for providing good pianos for their concerts, but Bob makes the most of it. Peter is featured giving his trademark single-string solo, which is particularly pretty when he is backed up by the frontline.

JB: We continue with a recording initially released in LP form in 1983 on Stomp Off Records (SOS 1065) with the title Dreaming The Hours Away (now Part II of the Times Past compilation). We only have space to discuss the eponymous number, but what a performance!

CHP: “Dreaming the Hours Away” was one of Tony’s favorites, and it shows as he plays a very strong lead throughout. After a very nice frontline intro, Hugh on saxophone takes the lead. This is followed by a sax solo, rather than a clarinet, that fits particularly well with this tune. Stan’s solo is simple, steady, and forceful, yet pretty. Bob’s piano solo is straightforward, with not too many notes and a restrained style, something he exhibited more in the band’s early years than in later recordings.

My drum breaks were controlled and modest. It has been no secret for the Black Eagles that I never liked giving drum solos. Being a self-taught drummer, I lacked the technique that other drummers possessed. However, in my role as a drummer, I believed that I should support the frontline and not intrude, something that most drummers, in my opinion, do not understand. I also used no hi-hat, something that all modern drummers typically have.

SV: Pam, I think your drum breaks were excellent! I also enjoyed the tight three-horn intro and all of the ensembles, as well as the key changes back-and-forth between choruses.

JB: And I love everything about this side, and the entire album!

We have two more tunes to check out, and these appeared on the compilation recording 25th Anniversary–Volume 1. Let’s start with a fantastic rendition of Armand J. Piron’s “Red Man Blues” from 1925. This ragtime-tempo hot blues is perfect for the NBEJB! What stands out here for you, Stan?

SV: I enjoyed the muted front line, ensemble, breaks and ending. Overall, an excellent side that shows our strengths as a band!

CHP: Now this is one medium-tempo rocking performance. One of the favorites when I was with clarinetist Tommy Sancton’s Black Eagle Jazz Band. The first ensemble is particularly strong. This tune is ideally suited for wood blocks, so I used them a lot. Hugh is in great form and featured prominently and goes all out. His playing at times is reminiscent of Larry Shields from the Original Dixieland Jazz Band. Piano and trombone solos are very nice, backed up by a strong rocking rhythm. The band members are particularly turned on shouting encouragements during solos. The out chorus is powerful and strong, a raucous performance.

JB: Yeah, this one struts! Our final tune returns us to Jelly Roll Morton with the NBEJB’s version of “Grandpa’s Spells!” I’ll start by observing that the band had no time constraints—like Morton endured on the original three-minute 78 rpm record—so returns after the B section to the INTRO before the reprise of “A” and finishes with four outchoruses! Stan, your solo is snaky and hot, and Pam, your accompaniment perfectly gooses the band without overpowering.

CHP: The Black Eagles deliver a transparent, up-tempo, hard-driving performance. There is an excellent balance among all instruments. I, like Morton’s drummer Andrew Hilaire, use wood blocks behind solos and ensembles. Tony tastefully plays George Mitchell’s breaks at the beginning of the tune. George Mitchell is one of my favorite cornet players after Armstrong. While Armstrong exudes sheer power, Mitchell is the lyrical player with a heavenly tone I have not heard from any other cornet player. Here, Hugh is at his best, and I dare to say that Morton would have approved of his playing and also Bob’s piano solo, which is terrific!

SV: Jeff, it’s been terrific reliving the earlier years of the NBEJB. I’ve enjoyed very much your carefully guiding Pam and me through this process and I greatly appreciate your helpful commentary along the way. As I remarked at the outset, The New Black Eagle Jazz Band happened to be just one of hundreds of bands around the world making a statement about traditional jazz back in the 1970s and ’80s, and I believe this story will always be worth telling.

Before we conclude, I’ll also mention that I recently spoke on the phone with Hugh, who at 87 (he’ll be 88 in September) is sharp as a tack! He volunteered an observation about the NBEJB that I find important: the family network–wives and children, parties at each other’s homes, trips to Scotland, California and other destinations to play our music together.

CHP: Jeff and Stan, it has been great fun to participate in this project. Statements were made that were taken for granted when the band was active, playing 120 gigs per year for many years.

During the early years of the Black Eagles, the band not only rehearsed but also discussed and analyzed the music we were playing. I believe this contributed to the unique sound of the band.

JB: Indeed, the times you enjoyed as both a band of musicians and band of friends fed into the success and overall sound you accomplished! That sound continues next month when we explore the third and final era of the original NBEJB and introduce the work of reedman Billy Novick! Stan, I’ll give you the last word.

SV: Thanks to all the gang at The Syncopated Times for helping make this possible.

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Trombonist Stan Vincent is the sole remaining “original” member of the New Black Eagle Jazz Band. Visit the New Black Eagles online at www.blackeagles.com for more information or to purchase their CDs.

Cornelis H. “Pam” Pameijer is a traditional jazz drummer, born in Indonesia. Pameijer moved to the United States in 1969 where he became a researcher in the field of reconstructive dentistry.