The New Black Eagle Jazz Band, Part Three

A playlist of the discussed cuts can be found HERE.

Jeff Barnhart: This month we’re continuing our exploration of the music and history of the New Black Eagle Jazz Band (NBEJB), a group from Boston that started in 1971 and, though with entirely different personnel save one, continues to this day! We agreed to partition our discussions around the arriving and departing reedmen as this was the only chair with any changes for 30 years. As with every past edition of this column, all tunes herein described are available online (YouTube) to listen to as you read the comments. Please do so!! You WON’T be disappointed!

Adding layers to the conversation, we now introduce reed player Billy Novick, who joined the NBEJB in 1986, so is regarded as the “new kid on the block,” having only been with the band for a “mere” 38 years! Billy, you currently lead the band as the final member of what could be called the “Original” NBEJB—that is, the band that had the founding six members from 1971 playing on the bandstand with you. Here’s a question to get us started: How well did you know the band and the music they were producing before joining?

Billy Novick: Jeff, I’d heard about the band and had a very vague sense of what they did, but I’d never heard them and, surprisingly, didn’t know any of the guys in the band at all. However, before I go any further, I should start by describing my musical background. Whereas some people put music in boxes and don’t like Coltrane, for example, because they like Jimmie Noone (or vice versa), I never felt that way. I was always looking for feeling, soul, and emotion in music, and to me at least, that can happen (or not) in any genre or context.

The problem for me was that there were so many trad or Dixieland bands out there that, from my perspective, weren’t trying to create that same soulfulness and bluesiness that launched my love for traditional or New Orleans jazz. I’d play gigs with those bands and enjoy them—playing music is always fun—and the musicians were all really good players and wonderful people. But on some level I’d feel slightly disengaged or disconnected to a lot of the music, mostly because I couldn’t figure out what I was supposed to be doing to make the music sound good. Many of the bands’ musical values were different than mine—they’d rarely play a blues, which was the heart of the music to me. My approach or goal in the music was to make even standard Dixieland tunes have a bluesy feel to them, and I often felt like a fish out of water trying to do that.

Then I heard the Black Eagles. I was playing on a jazz cruise with Guy Van Duser, the guitarist I’ve played with for 45 years! We were on the top deck, with just a few listeners. The Eagles were below us, and it was packed. When I heard the band play, I had an immediate reaction: Yes, this is it!! Peter Bullis heard me play with Guy and he saw that I had an appropriate and simpatico feel for the music, so I started subbing with the band, filling in for either Hugh (naturally) or, at times, for Stan V., mostly on sax.

I’d always be asking Tony for guidance—what should I play at a certain spot, did he like what I did, etc…and he’d always say something like “play what you feel…” Which is great, unless I felt like playing John Coltrane-ish stuff at the moment.

JB: LOL! I’d certainly love to hear Coltrane play “Apex Blues!” I’m so glad you’ve agreed to join us, Billy. I’m already learning a lot!

Once again, we’re being joined by trombonist Stan Vincent and drummer, C.H. “Pam” Pameijer. Gentlemen, I won’t (yet) put Billy on the spot with this next question, but would like to ask you: What new energy in terms of playing, ideas, and/or repertoire did Billy bring with him when he became part the group?

Stan Vincent: Billy had played often with the band in the past, was familiar with our repertoire, and as an experienced and talented full-time musician, arranger and composer he brought a host of talents to the job. Blessed with a good ear and a natural ability he quickly found a home with the band.

C.H. “Pam” Pameijer: When Billy joined the Black Eagles, we experienced what may be defined as a “break-in” period that lasted several years. Bill was from a younger generation and did not fit the mold, which was often referred to as a “Moldy Fig”. One new sound he brought to the band was his playing on alto sax. Fans initially were not crazy about the new sound, and our experience was reminiscent of Humphrey Lyttelton’s 1953 introduction of Bruce Turner, a terrific alto saxophone player. But as time went on, the band and Billy adjusted. Billy grew into a traditional clarinet player and, for the band, a somewhat more modern alto sax player. But it worked. There are many recordings with Billy on sax that are rich and exciting. He sure knew how to push the rhythm section, and some of our selected tunes will show this.

BN: Stan, thank you for those kind words! Pam—you’re spot on when you described my musical background as being so different from the rest of the band. The irony is that I always felt I had “cred” because I grew up listening to Morton, the Hot 5, etc…and Johnny Dodds was my idol…but so was Coltrane and Miles Davis, Jimi Hendrix, Johnny Hodges, etc.

SV: As the youngest kid in a family with two teenage sisters, I heard records and radios being played day and night in the early 40s – big band swing mostly – and on weekends when my dad was home it was Fats Waller, Eddie Condon, Benny Goodman, but I don’t recall choosing to listen to any particular trombone players. Even after I got my first trombone I can’t recall being influenced by a specific jazz trombonist. In high school my girlfriend and I danced to big bands like Tommy Doorstep (ed. Dorsey…HA!) at the Totem Pole Ballroom in Newton, and I suppose I was influenced by his sound, but I was more interested in smaller and looser groups like Condon’s, though I don’t recall a specific trombonist from those days. Honestly, it wasn’t until I got into the service that I began to attach names to trombone players that impressed me: Abe Lincoln on the West Coast, Trummy Young, J.J. Johnson, Kai Winding, and some of the more progressive players, but still no “traditional” players. Even Teagarden escaped me.

Then I met Jean and Doc Kittrell and joined their Chesapeake Bay Jass Band. They got me listening to some of the old N.O. records and I heard what part the trombone played in those bands. A revelation, yes, but to this day I can’t tell you the names of those guys and I’m unsure if I was influenced by them or by any other old-timers. So, if anyone should ask, you might say I was doing my own thing.

CHP: After 8 years of piano lessons I decided I wanted to play the drums. My father would not have it. So I had to improvise and being an entrepreneur, I built my own drum set from…used herring barrels covered with heavy plastic. I even built a foot pedal. My high school band buddies told me I was not bad, but the smell was too much. This is a true story.

Therefore, I was an entirely self-taught drummer banging away in my attic room in The Netherlands listening to Baby Dodds, Zutty Singleton (my favorite) and 78-recordings of Jelly Roll Morton, Louis Armstrong, King Oliver, etc. In my discography I mentioned that there was no better incentive for me as a teenager to succeed if your parents absolutely forbid you to become a drummer. The first time they heard me playing was at Symphony Hall in Boston when the Black Eagles celebrated their 10th Anniversary.

BN: Pam I had no idea about the herring barrels—that’s hysterical! Talk about discovering things you didn’t know about one another until 40 years later!

JB: For me as a listener (although I did get to play with the NBEJB once…in an airplane hanger!), what was special is that every one of you had your heroes, whether they were directly connected to the early jazz styles or not, but while you sometimes channeled them, the outcome was distinctly original and personal. You were playing with passion, soul, and a sense of adventure, making sure that even a tune you’d played hundreds of times using the same worked-out arrangement had a fresh, on-the-spot sound. Let’s explore some tunes!

Our first selection comes from Australia. Alto saxophonist, trumpeter, and bandleader “Lazy” Ade Monsbourgh first recorded his tune “Don’t Monkey With It” with UK trumpeter Humphrey Lyttelton’s group in 1951. Other than a few more renditions by Monsbrough and various aggregations, it rarely shows up on any discography.

I don’t believe any US band recorded it before the NBEJB in 1987 (on Don’t Monkey With It [Stomp Off S.O.S. 1217; now available as SO(CD)1147] N.B. All referenced tunes and album titles are available on www.blackeagles.com). This was very early in your involvement with the band, Billy.

“Don’t Monkey With It” exemplifies so much of what made/makes the band stand out. Three ensembles in, with breaks midway through each one, lead to stomping solos by Stan on trombone, Bob Pilsbury’s hot ride, and a 16-bar stoptime section for Peter Bullis’ strumming banjo, the final two bars of which give way to Billy’s one-note alto sax break, on which he leads himself into two intense solo choruses. Monsbrough being an alto saxophonist, and Billy being the newest member, it’s fitting he has the final solo statement before the four outchoruses. Pam, your creativity especially shows when we notice how you made each ensuing ensemble sound different simply by what you were doing. Billy, you take the final break, and Stan, you echo his break entering into the final half of the last ensemble. Simply smoking!

SV: You’ve captured the essence of this cut very well—ensembles are tight with excellent breaks, Billy’s sax solo is very good, and the double ending first rate.

CHP: I love this tune, It is well-recorded and allowed for nice variations in rhythm. The Australians loved the Lyttelton band and Humph commented once that he had more Aussies staying at his home than he had mice. I completely agree with Jeff’s assessment.

JB: On the 1987 recording, Together, the band plays one of Duke Ellington’s greatest pieces, “East St. Louis Toodle-oo.” Pam, since this was one of your picks, I’ll ask you to start in.

CHP: The band follows the Duke Ellington arrangement, albeit at a slightly slower tempo. I play the temple blocks on this tune, and I always liked the smoky sound of the tune. A nice alto and piano solo are followed by Stan on trombone. I back Tony with a choke cymbal. I remember that Wayne Jones from the Salty Dogs in Chicago endlessly explained to me how to choke a cymbal. Typical talk only drummers can have and understand. The other one is the size and kind of wood that should be used for wood blocks. I’ll stop here because only a traditional drummer would be interested. The ending is the traditional Ellington ending, which the band followed.

JB: Pam, I’ll interject that my good friend, trumpeter Scotty Philbrick came into one of the tents at the Great Connecticut Traditional Jazz Festival in the late 1980’s shaking his head in wonder. I asked him what was up and he told me, “I spent the last hour in the musicians’ hospitality tent listening to Wayne Jones, Hal Smith, and Pam Pameijer discuss the 27 different ways to play a choke cymbal. A doctoral thesis was created in between bites of hot dogs!” All I could say was, “Man, am I jealous!!”

SV: I think this studio recording was one of the best sessions we ever recorded during this period, and I’d go further to say this particular number, with Billy on alto, was absolutely top notch in every respect.

JB: Next, let’s examine two tunes from a concert the band performed in 1987 at The Casino in Treebeek, Holland that couldn’t be farther apart in style. The only connection is that they both were recorded by Louis Armstrong, although decades apart.

We’ll listen first to “Someday Sweetheart.” While the NBEJB didn’t dwell on standards, when the band chose to perform one they picked from the cream of the crop. The tune was written in 1919, and early recordings were by Alberta Hunter (hers was the first) and Jelly Roll Morton (in both 1923 and 1926). Armstrong himself recorded it with King Oliver’s Creole Jazz Band in 1923 in Richmond, Indiana for Gennett, but that tune was rejected.

In the NBEJB version, Tony Pringle fairly sobs through his cornet on the verse, with some plaintive filagree-laden piano backup provided by Pilsbury. Then it’s Eli Newberger on tuba playing the chorus with only Peter Bullis accompanying on banjo. Whether by accident or design, Eli momentarily veers into “Melancholy Blues” going into the bridge. Tuba playing this melody originated in King Oliver’s 1926 recording, and it’s great that you pay homage to that here. The slow tempo allows for the polyphonic interplay between the horns to have space and breathe. Billy, your solo begins close to the melody and then takes flights of fancy that I listened to time and again. Stan, you’re next, swinging effortlessly while pianist Pilsbury continues to provide flawless support. One mellow ensemble—although with a nice build—takes us out. Did you guys enjoy getting to play something simple and straightforward on occasion?

BN: I think that with our band’s repertoire, I’d consider a “standard” to be a tune that somebody might have actually heard before (I’m being facetious but there’s truth to it). Seriously, I loved playing the standards. First of all, I believe that most tunes become “standards” because people (especially musicians) love them and think they’re worthy of being played over and over again. There are some standards that I don’t like to play because I feel like they don’t lend themselves that much to the specific kind of jazz and improvising I want to do, but that has nothing to do with the inherent beauty or emotional power of the song.

But, more important, as I mentioned before, the band (Tony, in particular) had the rare ability to put so much feeling into a song that somebody else might feel was trite or even hokey! He certainly did it with this tune…plus, of course, I was hooked as a kid by Morton’s version of the tune with Omer Simeon’s bass clarinet solo. I have a vague memory of bringing my bass clarinet to a gig and doing the same thing, and not particularly successfully! (Stan and Pam—I’m sure you must have blocked out that memory years ago, so I don’t know if you can corroborate any of the details)

CHP: I vaguely remember a gig with you on bass sax. I also thought I recorded the tune on a version including a bass clarinet but cannot locate it. Perhaps I never did.

BN: It wasn’t me. I never dared to lift a bass sax, let alone try to play one!

JB: HAH! Try a piano! On the opposite side of the spectrum, the same album contains the Louis Armstrong and his Hot Five classic “Put ’Em Down Blues,” with an unusual 48-bar length neither a blues nor a downer, especially as assayed by the NBEJB! Most of the (VERY) few bands currently playing this tune pay close attention to the original, but this version breathes in a way that wrings every possible musical treat out of the plaintive melody and unusual chord sequence. Coming in at nearly three times the length of Armstrong’s original from 1927, the heat never stops from the first bar! One of my favorite sides of the thousands you recorded, guys!

Here’s the form: Two ensembles; trombone solo (with swinging rhythm section); cornet solo (with only banjo accompaniment); searing alto solo (with more hot rhythm behind…just listen to the four-to-the-bar tuba!); piano solo; Hot Five chorus (so no tuba or drums); three final outchoruses (the second featuring slashing choke cymbal from Pam and Billy’s dancing bridge—the last one featuring TOO many highlights to comprehensively list, but I’ll mention the figure Billy plays in bars 9-10 and picked up and harmonized with him in bars 11-12 by pianist Pilsbury as well as Stan’s smoking bridge)!! Apologies to Armstrong, but for me this is the definitive version of this tune, and I invite anybody to send me a better one.

I should point out that throughout the majority of the solos, Eli plays his tuba in 4/4 with a facileness that would challenge any string bass player!

The band did a good amount of international travel and some of the appearances were captured for commercial release. This next selection is also in Holland at The Gulle Ark Oisterwyck in 1989. Gents; I’ve heard other bands give their version of King Oliver’s Creole Jazz Band recording of “Weatherbird Rag” and I’ve heard duos pay homage to the duo recording by the immortal teaming of Louis Armstrong and Earl Hines, but not until NBEJB did I experience a group combining elements of BOTH versions! There are two recorded renderings by NBEJB, and I chose this one for several reasons, in spite of the fact that there is a miscue during Tony Pringle’s and Bob Pilsbury’s cornet/piano duo on the first three times around the trio (section C). That small fluff aside (and really, it’s those moments that put an edge on things and make the music human!), the version we’re listening to is fresh, on-the-edge-of-your-seat, and simply HOT!

By way of illustrating how daring the band was during that time period (and later as well) one only need point out that an unlimited time limit meant sections often heard only once or twice on the original recording could be explored more thoroughly, thus we find a return to section A after section B for solos!! Here’s the rundown:

4-bar Ensemble Intro; Ensemble (A); Ensemble (A); Ensemble (B-clarinet breaks); Ensemble (B-trombone breaks); clarinet solo 2x (A); trombone solo 2x (A); pretty tuba solo 2x (A-banjo accomp); Ensemble (B-cornet breaks); Ensemble (A); 4-bar interlude; cornet/piano duo on C 1st chorus cornet lead; 2nd chorus piano lead, but Tony steps on the second phrase; 3rd chorus duo with Pilsbury quoting Hines; Ensemble (C-clarinet breaks); Ensemble (C-trombone breaks—Stan uses an Armstrong phrase on the first break, Tony echoes it and then Eli does too!!); Ensemble (C-clarinet WILD break; 2nd break arranged cornet/clarinet).

I’d love to hear any comments you could share.

CHP: Always a challenging tune for piano and cornet. The band delivered a commendable rendition, but it’s hard to beat the Armstrong/Hines recording. But just the fact that Tony dared to tackle this tune is an example of the confidence the band had to do what most other bands did not attempt.

BN: I agree with Pam. Sometimes I’ll wonder why we’re bothering to play a particular tune, knowing full well that whatever we play won’t be as good as the original recording we all learned it from. However, the great majority of the time I felt the band was creating something really worthwhile that warranted being heard.

JB: I wholeheartedly agree. We’ve run out of space this a time around, so let’s pick up the thread up next month. To begin, I’ll have a question that’s been on my mind for years!

NBEJB leader Billy Novick is internationally recognized as a musician, performer, arranger, and composer. Visit him online at www.billynovick.com.

Trombonist Stan Vincent is the sole remaining “original” member of the New Black Eagle Jazz Band. Visit the New Black Eagles online at www.blackeagles.com for more information or to purchase their CDs.

Cornelis H. “Pam” Pameijer is a traditional jazz drummer, born in Indonesia. Pameijer moved to the United States in 1969 where he became a researcher in the field of reconstructive dentistry.